Petek (@RadarRayne) joins me to talk about coming into Bitcoin as an artist, and creating Bitcoin art. We also chat about her experience working with PlanB on stock to flow inspired art pieces, her thoughts on women in bitcoin, and how some ideas were just ripe for being created!

Petek Links:

• Twitter: @RadarRayne

Sponsor links:

• Kraken
• Unchained Capital
• CypherWheel by CypherSafe

Stephan Livera links:

• Show notes and website
• Follow me on twitter @stephanlivera
• Subscribe to the podcast
• Patreon @stephanlivera

Podcast transcript:

Stephan Livera:

Petek, welcome to the show.

Petek Sketcher:

Hi Stephan. Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me here.

Stephan Livera:

Yes, so look, I’ve been following you online and I’ve seen, you’ve been interacting with plan B and you’ve been sharing some of what you’re doing in terms of Bitcoin and art. Now I know your background is not the typical libertarian or programmer or tech person. How did you get into all this?

Petek Sketcher:

No, it’s definitely not. So I mean it’s a long journey, but I mean I was mainly a lot in the media industry producing photo shoots and stuff like that. Always, always like commissioning creatives, art directing branding and things like that and like producing stuff worldwide. And I absolutely love that. And, and then I came to South Africa and I sort of did a 180 on that and came here and started doing like art consulting for hotels and stuff like that. And so I’ve always, always appreciated creative people. And, it’s in me as well, obviously. And then I just had the opportunity to like paint some stuff for the hotels as well cause they asked me to, and it just all started from there, just like just kicked off literally. And, I was doing lots of research into Bitcoin. I mean, I started doing that about three years ago. Three years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Like 2016 before, you know, I didn’t buy anything that I wanted to know what, what I was thinking of buying. But it just fascinated me so much. So I just really literally dove straight into that rabbit hole.

Stephan Livera:

But what was it that fascinated you?

Petek Sketcher:

Mmm I would say the cultural implications, the I just had this innate feeling that like an inner knowing this is going to change the world. This is going to change the world. And it’s not just gonna change the monetary system. It’s going to have like all these wider implications that are going to touch culture and humanity in lots of different ways because Bitcoin forces you to reevaluate those things and educate yourself. I mean, it just forces you, but it’s just, you just suddenly become, the more you read, the more aware you become of what’s wrong with the system right now and where it can go with Bitcoin. You know? I mean, it’s fascinating, really.

Stephan Livera:

Right. Okay. And so what’s your journey been like in terms of learning about Bitcoin and learning about those cultural, impacts as you say,

Petek Sketcher:

The journey? I mean, the first question I think is definitely, well, I mean, the very first question is what is Bitcoin? But then it’s what is money? How does, how does money work? Oh, hang on a minute. It’s just a promise, right? It’s just a promise that used to be backed by gold and now it kind of feels like an empty one. Right? When you, when you hold that piece of paper in your hand, you’re like I’m just trusting the bank that this is, you know, worth something. And we’ve all collectively agreed that, it’s worth something when we, when we conduct trade with each other, so we’ve all disagreed. That’s the medium of exchange. But what if there’s a better one that doesn’t lose its value over time? Like pretty much every fiat system, fiat money has historically speaking.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah. So look, coming in, in 2016, who were some of the voices you were listening to? Who who were some of the authors you’re reading? What was what was around at that point and how did that influence your understanding now?

Petek Sketcher:

[Inaudible] Okay. I actually, I had a friend back then who just wouldn’t stop talking about it and he would literally bug me and say, you’ve got to buy this. And so we would always like meet up and talk about it. And, and that’s when I started doing research and just thinking. So I wasn’t on Twitter back then. I wasn’t, I only joined this year. I’m just trying to think what I mean. I just read about, yeah, I must admit I did, I did get stuck in some shitcoins, man, so that was not good. Burnt my fingers there, but I think that’s probably for a lot of new or nocoiners or newbs as we like to say. I think that’s probably if you’re doing your own research, that might be a natural course, especially back then when there was no warning and then this whole ICO stuff hadn’t happened and back then it was like, I mean, I remember sitting in a cafe and talking like there was like 2017. Right? Like I was in a cafe trying to get onto an exchange, right? And researching what’s a good one. And then I realized, I just looked up, turn left, look right. And I saw everyone had some kind of Bitcoin exchange on their screen in one cafe in Cape town. I was like, what’s going on here? This is like bitcoin central here or what?

Petek Sketcher:

And then the guy next to me gave me a lot of information and he actually, yeah, he gave me some good tips. But yeah. Other than that, what was I reading? It was just a lot of internet research that I did. So my own research and then I would, then I started to gravitate. Then I started to see like PlanB’s work and his stock to flow chart. And I, all I can say is when I saw that or every time, every time I saw that I had this again. [inaudible], it’s like basically I do a lot of energy work and I, I learn how to perceive energy around me. You know, it could be situational, but it can also be the energy in a person or an object or anything you come across, just use your awareness and perceive the energy around it.

Petek Sketcher:

And I kept noticing I would have this gravitational pull towards, his stock to flow chart. And then, and then I, you know, I read it and I wrapped my head around it and I understood the principles of it, you know, not, not necessarily the math completely, like not the way he sort of, you know, but I intro like instinctively I was like, it just clicked. I was like, that makes total sense. That makes total sense that the ratio or the relationship between the stock and the production of something measured in a value could determine if something can be a unit of monetary exchange. Right.

Stephan Livera:

Right. And it may be that there’s something underlying that we perceive these things that have, a high stock to flow or a low inflation rate, however you want to call it. But we want to accumulate those things because we think those are more scarce things.

Petek Sketcher:

Yes, yes. Thanks. Yeah. So I had that pull towards that and, and inside there was something I want to paint that I want to paint that this is going to be, I know, I’m like, you know, so, but I was really this excited. I was like, I didn’t really want to pay that. This is going to be a piece of financial history. When we look back at it, this is important. So I want to commemorate it, I want to celebrate that, you know, and, and that, and so I approached him and I said, I would love to paint this for you. And it was his idea to kind of go, well, let’s share this whole process with everybody and, bring this to the people because it’s art and it’s not all that geeky blockchain coding. Yeah. Complicated stuff or the tech and all that stuff. This, this is another way to bring people to a Bitcoin or at least get them curious about it, you know, like people, people who might be intimidated by all that stuff. I mean, I, I’m, I’m a bit intimidated by it and I’ve been reading about it for three years.

Stephan Livera:

Right. So you went, you went to meet planB and you spoke about it. I’m sure you threw some ideas around in terms of how you can present it. Tell us a little bit about how some of those ideas formed of how you are planning to present stock to flow in an artwork.

Petek Sketcher:

I already, I already knew, well in the, in the beginning I already, cause I, I paint paintings, so, so my other paintings are about drone photography of the planet. Well they’re inspired by drone photography of like landscapes and coastal lines and minds. Like I’m actually really into aerial photos of mines for some reason. But well, because I feel like the geology of the planet is like a historical diary, right? It tells a story. And so I already had that way of painting and seeing things. And then when I saw the stock to flow chart, I thought, Oh, I could use my technique and just make it look like an abstract aerial landscape. But the, moon thing, the idea of the moon being the background that came afterwards, that will, that came like, you know, a little bit after we’d been talking quite a lot about how, how this would sort of unfold.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah. So give us an overview. What’s the current thinking in terms of what it will look like when it’s complete?

Petek Sketcher:

[Inaudible] so the, the chart, I’m loosely interpreting it, but there’s the graph and then the, the little data, the Bitcoin data points that are like climbing up. And I sort of say that they’re spiraling around, that trajectory that’s heading towards the higher market cap and all that. And then there’s the other trajectory, of gold silver and diamond and palladium and all that and how their S2F relates to the market cap. And then the background in his chart is it’s just like, you know, a gradient of some sort with lots of lines. And that background is going to be the moon. So I’ve made, I’ve made like craters for the data. So all the data points of like the Bitcoin data points and the gold and the silver, those are those are the craters on the moon. Yeah. So that’s just this interpretation, there can be other interpretations of it and it doesn’t have to be the moon, but I just thought that’s a brilliant, wonderful, exciting way to start it off you know.

Stephan Livera:

And so for listeners you probably listened to the earlier episodes with plan B. I think in episode 67, the first time we spoke about how there were two different charts and the one you’re referring to here is like comparing commodities and their own stock to flow ratio versus that of Bitcoin. And obviously as Bitcoin is going through these, having cycles every four years, then you can plot out theoretically what it would be. And so that’s what your getting at there, Petek. So let’s talk a little bit about the materials that are going into this. Tell us about that.

Petek Sketcher:

I’m actually really excited about that because that was like one of those ridiculous ideas where you’re just like, yeah, well that’s just like, that’s not gonna happen. I was like, well, if I am painting the background as the moon first, I thought, ah, man, I would love to put some, meteorite on that, like actual meteorite. So by the way, this has like, none of this has been announced yet on my Twitter feed. But by the time this, this episode comes out, I’ll, you know, I’ll share it with everyone. I mean the reaction has been already incredible from, from people. But yeah, this has not been announced yet, so, so I wanted to put, meteorite on there and I thought, yeah, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll get hold, I’ll contact a geologist and I’ll get some meteorite and then, and then I thought, Oh man, it’s the moon. I would love to, would be so awesome to put some actual moon rock on there. Right. Like the only way to get moon rock is from NASA, from the Apollo missions, which by the way, I still want to do, no honestly, I still want to do it. I, I’m going to get my hands onto moon rock from NASA one way or another.

Petek Sketcher:

No, but they, they, they collected a, a very, you know, certain amount and they only, they only dish it out to scientists and universities for studies, you know, in experiments. But then this geologist had lunar meteorite and I was like, Oh my God. Like actual pieces from the moon. So some, some meteorites, I don’t even know this, like some meteorites actually come from the moon and end up landing on planet earth. And so it’s obviously it’s scientifically analyzed for its composition and you know, certified as being real pieces from the moon. I mean, very, very tiny little like just a few grams obviously cause it’s expensive shit. So you, yeah, you’ve got a piece of the moon on, on, on the [inaudible], on your artwork. So, so plan B, actually you said I wanted to like smash that up as well and, and, and sprinkle it over over the painting.

Petek Sketcher:

And then he called me and he said, Oh actually can you do me a favor? Can you, can you not smash it up? Can you just leave it? And one piece so that you know, people, my friends can touch it, can touch the moon. How amazing is that? I was like, wow. Yeah, I’m with you on that actually that’s a really nice. So it’s a collaboration. It’s a, you know like a few other people have commissioned me for their own version of it. And each version is going to be very different and suited to each person and their personality and their values around Bitcoin. But it is still a journey that they also take with me, the artist, and I want to hear what their ideas are and I’ll, I’ll paint it for them, you know,

Stephan Livera:

is this going to be like a limited run?

Petek Sketcher:

They’ll only be a few, or what’s the story? Again, that’s an energy thing. So I, you know, I, I did sort of [inaudible] reaction has been so like, wow. And I’ve sort of gone, Oh man, how many, how many of these am I? How many of these am I prepared to paint? You know, like, I’m not going to be like the stock to flow girl for the rest of my life. So but I, I’d like to paint a family of them or a collection of body of work of them. And as long as they all feel different to me and as long as I still feel excited to paint them that’s, that’s going to happen. And, and also there’s this wider, there’s this wider well mission, so to speak. You know, everyone who hangs one up in their house, they can invite their friends roudn to their house, and then it’s a talking point.

Petek Sketcher:

So it touches, it’s that bridge. It’s that bridge again that that plan B talks about a lot being the bridge to, to Bitcoin and the art can also be the bridge Tibet coin. Like art, art meets science, art meets data and yeah. So I don’t know how many I’m going to, I’m actually, yeah, no, I’m thinking like, okay, at some point I might have to close that, that list and.

Stephan Livera:

Gotta give it some scarcity.

Petek Sketcher:

well that as well. No, I mean each one is absolutely unique, so I’m not worried about that. It’s just it’s just, I need to enjoy painting them. That’s very, very important. But I feel, I feel like and this is a, this might sound funny to some people, but actually quite a lot of you guys, quite a lot of the Bitcoin community gets this. I’ve noticed, cause I’ve spoken to quite a few now.

Petek Sketcher:

What’s interesting, well, to me, I, when I paint, I, I channel, I just, I just, I speak to, I know that sounds funny, but literally I can, I, I feel like I connect consciously with the energy of Bitcoin and I go, Hey Bitcoin, tell me what, what do you want me to paint? What’s this gonna look like? How do you want to, you know, and I speak to the, I ask the canvas, I ask the energy of the person who’s commissioning it. So basically, I’m channeling, I’m just channeling what’s coming through and what wants to become reality the same way Bitcoin wants to become reality. I mean, I can absolutely, and we can, we can all feel that everyone who’s excited about Bitcoin can see how it just wants to, and it’s becoming more and more a reality. It’s like this big black hole that’s just sucking the energy out of fiat money.

Stephan Livera:

And it’s like it’s like you, you talk about this idea of personal meaning, right? So different ideas have a certain meaning to you or when you hear a certain song, it reminds you of a certain time and a place that you might’ve heard that song or when you were studying for exams or whatever. So what, how does that play in for you in terms of things like when you first heard about Bitcoin or when you had your aha moment about Bitcoin, does that also have a similar kind of feeling there too?

Petek Sketcher:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean for example, that moment in the cafe for me, it was just like, Oh my God, what’s going on here? Right. and, the same way. So everyone’s like, bought their Bitcoin for the first time at a different date. You know, time and place. And you know, someone might be like, Oh, I remember when, I remember when hit all time high and someone who’s really into this will have a lot of emotions attached to that and, and it will be a very personal memory to them. The same way we know where we were, where we all were when 9/11 happened, you know, even if that was a very, very tragic event, it was, it was important to humanity in such a way that we all know where we were when that happened.

Petek Sketcher:

And happy moments as well. So, but with Bitcoin, like if you look at the BTC to USD chart or whatever your currency is, if you’re a geek about it, you know exactly where on that chart you bought Bitcoin for the first time. So I’ve also, I’m also very interested in painting that for people and, and so it would be like a secret diary to them. Like, if they look at the art on the wall, it might be the four hour chart, it might be the logarithmic, the whole 11 year log chart. But I could then pinpoint that moment secretively on that painting, maybe with some moon rock or something. But for someone else who sees that piece, that painting, it will be like, Oh, that’s just a piece of abstract art or what the fuck is that? But to the person, it’s really personal. It’s really personal moment in time. So I like that sort of double entendre that, you know. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Stephan Livera:

It means a lot to you but not necessarily to other people. I guess in the future. Cause what happens is over time, once you’ve passed, once enough time has passed. What used to be big movements just looks like tiny blips because it’s just, you know, it’s, it’s gone away so much, but to you it might feel a lot more real.

Petek Sketcher:

Oh God. Yeah. Or, or I mean, when you zoom in onto that log chart, I mean, you know, the choppiness is all, it’s all a matter of scale. And also I, also say that or believe that, I think it’s the purest form of, well, it reflects human nature much more purely than let’s say the stock market, which is manipulated or like by corporations and governments and people in power. So I think Bitcoin is a much pure reflection of human emotions. And that sounds like a seismic graph.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah. And so have you had much experience with people who got interested from an art perspective or they just saw the artwork and then they then went on to learn more about Bitcoin?

Petek Sketcher:

You mean now with the stock to flow? Yeah.

Stephan Livera:

Or just, yeah. Or just any of your friends. Have you had any experiences like that over the years?

Petek Sketcher:

Oh, with my friends. Yeah, with my friends, I’ve got, I mean, I have onboarded a couple of people and actually a few women and actually three women actually. So that’s really cool. It’s not a lot, but it’s something. So my sister and two other friends and I did like a little Bitcoin for beginners, like morning session. Cause I said, I mentioned to one friend, I said, Oh she, she was always so kind of gifting to me with her wisdom. And then I thought, well what can I, give you in return? And, and I said, would you like me to teach you a little bit about Bitcoin? Cause I knew she was curious. And then, and then she went yes. And I said, okay, well let’s do it on Saturday. And then before I knew it, like she had invited someone and she said, Oh, do you mind if that person brings someone?

Petek Sketcher:

And then that person said, do you mind if I bring someone? And then that person said, do you mind if I bring someone? It was just like, okay. And, it was a very interesting conversation and these were all people who really didn’t know much about it, but were naturally curious. So when I bring it up, I mean that’s just one instance, but when I bring it up amongst my friends who aren’t, there is definitely a natural curiosity there. Definitely. And then I point them in the directions of, you know, like The Little Bitcoin Book or you know, The Bitcoin standard and your, and your podcast and especially also What Bitcoin Did cause that’s a bit more easy to get into. And then you can always jump over to like your content for more deeper insights, things like that.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah. And yeah. And what’s your take, you mentioned earlier that there’s not a lot of women in into Bitcoin. What’s your take on why that is?

Petek Sketcher:

I think that’s a real pity. I really do. And I kind of feel sorry for the guys in the Bitcoin space cause I’m like, like imagine going into like one of those parties and it’s just like 95% guys. It’s like, come on girls. That’s where they’re all hanging out. Come on. That’s, you know, come to the party. No, really. And I think it’s because of that whole tech side that it might seem so intimidating and geeky. Oh, that’s just for computer programmers and all that nonsense. But it’s, I think they’re missing out. They haven’t quite cottoned onto the fact that this is culturally going to have like amazing implications. So for example Trace Mayer’s really good at talking about that stuff. It’s like he just, he’s like, okay, so who are you going to be?

Petek Sketcher:

What kind of person are you going to be? Because it teaches you about well you, you start learning about trust and you know, when it’s about holding your private keys, it’s like, well, how much do you trust yourself? Right? How much do I really trust myself? How reliable am I towards myself, what’s, what level of integrity do I have? Like what’s my integrity? All those things with confidence, reliability, independence, health mental health. So Trace Mayer talks about that quite a lot. Mental health, but all of those things, if women get that it has, I mean, you know, women are usually the ones who teach their children and the next generation. So usually the ones who pass on culture and or should be a big part of that at least. And I think that’s where women can come in. Definitely. And also with that creative, that little creative edge and, just looking at it from a different angle, from a feminine creative angle. I mean, I’m not saying that, you know, other people aren’t that like men aren’t creative. It’s just women are known to be very creative, you know? They, look at those things naturally in that way. Yeah. But we’re all, we’re all humans at the end of the day, so why, why shouldn’t we include more women? We’re getting them excited about it.

Stephan Livera:

And you also had another theme that I’ve picked up on, which is around this idea. It’s almost like a multiple discovery, right? It’s like,

Petek Sketcher:

Oh yeah, yeah.

Stephan Livera:

Multiple people can sort of come up with the same invention or some similar idea. At a similar time, what’s your take on why that occurs and how that’s happening?

Petek Sketcher:

Yes. I mean, it’s a, it’s a known phenomena. I think it’s fascinating. Where very meaningful inventions across history have been invented around the same time. And, you know, we’re talking, if you look at the picture of history, you know, thousands and thousands of years very, these meaningful things have like, been invented around the same year, sometimes the same month even. And we’re talking like in all sorts of what was it? Industries or parts of life, like health or a science or like, so Darwinism, well, evolution what does it call it again? Select, sorry, go blank. That thing that Darwin invented.

Stephan Livera:

Survival of the fittest?

Petek Sketcher:

Well, yeah. There’s, it’s got another name. So, but there was someone else who I think his name was Wallace, who invented, who came up with that same concept, really around the same time. And they even knew each other, he had already developed his theory but not published it. And then Darwin saw that the other guy was onto the same thing. And he was like, Oh shit, I better like publish mine before he does. Right. It’s the same with photography, Henry Fox Talbot and Luis Daguerre together. Very, very similar timing of inventing how these fit paper. I mean electricity or all sorts, all sorts. So I believe, I mean personally I believe that that happens because those ideas are already there. They’re already there on another dimension. What I would, what you can say the universe or you could call it the source consciousness. Some people might call it God that it’s already there and it’s ripe for the picking like a low hanging fruit. It’s ready in time and space for us to receive it. And if you, if you’re the one who’s most open to it, to tapping into and tuning into that level of consciousness, you can download it. And that’s also why I believe that’s Satoshi downloaded that information. He was so open to to receiving that information that he, I believe he just, he or the group or she just literally downloaded it for humanity to receive it.

Stephan Livera:

Now, I think one idea that’s related to that is Matt Ridley, he’s got a book, I think it was in 2015 or 16 I think it was called. I think it’s called the evolution of ideas. I think you would really like that book because in that book he’s talking about a very similar idea. What he’s talking about there is that oftentimes in human history there were a lot of people working on the same idea because that was what, that was kind of the next step. And so, right. And it’s almost going against this idea of the great man theory that oh, there was this great man and he invented this idea. And without him we wouldn’t have this idea. Because in reality, as you’re saying, there were often times in history where multiple people were working on a similar idea. And it’s not to say that, you know, it wasn’t hard, right? But there was a race, but it was more like, it was a race to be the first so that you got the credit for it as opposed to if you didn’t invent it, it would never, you know, like if we, if, if DARPA and whatever, I didn’t do the internet, someone else might’ve.

Petek Sketcher:

Exactly. Yeah. And someone else would have invented it pretty much around that same time. Pretty much. So it’s like inevitable. Yeah.

Stephan Livera:

Right. And so if you sort of understand and look back at the history of like, okay, the cypherpunks and what were some of the ideas that came before B money, bit gold, hash cash, all of these ideas were preceding.

Petek Sketcher:

Yes, yes. So they were already tapping into that information, that consciousness and they were already connecting and tapping into it, but if they didn’t sort of manage to download the purest form of it or it was still evolving. So yeah, I could, yeah, I’m totally with you on that. But that’s really interesting. That’s, that sounds like a great book. Thank you.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah, I think we’re on a bit of a streak with Matt Ridley ones cause on the American HODL episode we were talking about his other one, the rational optimist. But yeah, so look, I mean that’s a, that’s kind of this theory of Bitcoin was downloaded. Right. So, so I guess from your perspective, how has it been difficult or has it been quite easy for you to kind of learn more about the economics of it and the technology of it? Has that been a difficult part for you? Or has it just been like a natural thing to learn?

Petek Sketcher:

It’s been a, up until a sort of level of knowledge or depth of knowledge, it’s actually been quite easy for me, cause I’m like, cause I mean, if you’re curious, you’re just gonna absorb it. Right? You’re just gonna enjoy learning it. So I mean, I’ve, I’ve gone down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, the, you know, which, which leads you down the Austrian economics one, the, what is money, rabbit hole all those different things. But my sort of wall right now is okay. Getting onto running my own node. So I’m like, Oh, I’d love to run my own node. I’d really love to do that, but there’s just so much I’d need to learn or I feel like I need to learn before I can get there. But at the same time, I feel, you know, like I’ve, you know, I’ve got a hard wallet and I’m, I’m cool with that. Right. But even just getting to that stage was like, okay, okay, I’m going to, I’m going to do this now. I mean, I’ve got my private keys, like, I’m not going to do the centralized shit.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah, I’m okay. As I say, it’s, it’s a progression thing, right? So I don’t think anybody’s expecting you to be perfect from day one. So it’s just a, okay, now you’ve got a Harbor wall. Now that’s, you know, that’s the next level. Yeah.

Petek Sketcher:

Yes. But I, you know, I think it would be nice if people don’t sort of give up that because, because the ethos of Bitcoin really having your your own node is so part of that ethos. I mean, otherwise, why are you, you know, why if you don’t want to get there, then I feel like you’re not quite getting what, what Bitcoin really is about or what, what impact it can have on the world.

Stephan Livera:

So look, let’s talk a bit more more about Bitcoin and art just generally and not like the stock to flow aspect of it. Do you have any other ideas around ways art can be used to communicate the value of Bitcoin? Or is it just more in your view? It’s more just like, it’s an expression of what you’re passionate about and other people, they see that art work or they hear it or they experience it and they just, they just want it for themselves?

Petek Sketcher:

I’m getting a lot of excitement from people. I mean, there’s, there’s, you know, there’s other Bitcoin artists out there and they’re all doing all these amazing things and in, in so many different ways. I mean, a lot of them are actually quite figurative about it. You know, like portraits of Hal Finney but done in a really clever way and very detailed. And I like, everyone’s got different skillsets. So all those different aesthetics will appeal to different types of people. And that’s our thing. That’s awesome. I think the more varied that space can become, and it’s still quite a narrow space, that sort of Bitcoin or crypto art space. And, I think let’s, you know, it’s not, it’s not just, I mean it’s not just Bitcoin, but I think that’s where you sort of end up gravitating towards in the end, I think.

Petek Sketcher:

But maybe for other people that isn’t like that and that’s totally fine. But that whole, you know, all that blockchain and all that technology and the ideas and the ethos that inspires so many artists with so many different skillsets. And I absolutely love that. So, but the people who have contacted me just off the back of these couple of videos that I’ve put out, I mean, for me that’s like quite new. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, what is going on here? I thought, I’m the only geek here doing this, who gets, you know but everyone gets it. They just get it and they get so excited about it. I, I must say like, you know, each and every one of them who who’s like been contacting me or even just like sending little messages on Twitter going, Oh my God, I love that. They are so important to me. I can’t even tell you. I’m so grateful to every single one of them. And, and yeah, I’ve had amazing conversations with people. I’ve had amazing conversations, like really inspiring and each person is so different and they seem that, they sort of hone in on a different value around Bitcoin. Do you know what I mean? Like to one person, it’s all about the freedom and the Liberty that it cause to someone else’s, you know, fuck backs or whatever.

Petek Sketcher:

Yeah.

Stephan Livera:

How do you convey things like, you know, monetary sovereignty in art?

Petek Sketcher:

That’s a very good question. And that is, that is so abstract. And for me, I do that energetically. You know, like what I was saying earlier on, I’m, I tap into that person’s values and then I sort of, you know, colors, colors have different vibrations. They have different you know, w w the way and textures, they convey different feelings and emotions. Even if you’re painting an abstract piece of art, you can capture different values and emotions in it. I mean, Mark Rothko for example, was brilliant at that. I mean these giant giant paintings up, they would just colors. But man, they vibrate it if you like. It’s different if you’ve actually sat in front of a real Rothko. Than if you look at it in a magazine, it’s like, it just speaks, it just speaks. It gives you a, it gives you an emotion. So when I’m painting, when I’m painting I tap into that person’s values and I, I then express it in color and texture and, and by infusing the energy into it, onto the canvas, well, that’s how I would do that. But yeah, it’s a very abstract process. And maybe not everyone, you know, gets it or.

Stephan Livera:

Right. Yeah. Look, it’s not everyone’s a cup of tea, but certainly it’s like sometimes there are things that you don’t, you know, they sort of work for a reason that you don’t understand or you just, you see it and you just sense something and you just feel a certain way about that. So what’s your thoughts on running a business? Do you see it like that? Is it, it’s gonna become like a bigger part of your business over this next year or two or the next few years that you might actually start doing more Bitcoin artwork as opposed to your other art?

Petek Sketcher:

Oh, yeah. I’m not gonna, I don’t see it as a business. I see it as I’m just following the energy of it and it’s, and it excites me and it excites the people I’m creating it for. So I’m just following and stepping into that energy. And if at any point it doesn’t excite me anymore, I’ll find something else that does. But I do really feel that, you know, anyway, don’t always, like I said earlier on, it won’t always be the stock to flow chart itself, but I love the idea of painting data. Right? And there’s so much ways, so many different ways of interpreting the data around Bitcoin. There’s like, you know, gosh, I mean, we could talk forever about that, but I do know it’s just, it’s talking me, it’s sucking me into that direction and it’s like Bitcoin is my muse, right? So that’s, that’s how I see it.

Stephan Livera:

Yeah. I like that way of framing it. And another thing you mentioned around expressing data into art, but then we also remember that that data might change or certain relationships might change. So how do you think about it in a way that like, are you trying to make it more in a timeless way?

Petek Sketcher:

Yes, that’s true. Yes. I know what you mean. So I mean, for example, we don’t know if the stock flow model will hold, right? We don’t know that for sure. But I still nevertheless, I still feel it’s an important piece of financial history. And it’s not like, Oh, come May it’s going to be determine whether it’s true or false. That’s gonna still take time. It’s going to still take like at least a year or a year and a half. But it’s almost like what do we already know? Everyone is in this space, like your instinct for why you are so drawn to Bitcoin. What do you already know? You know, so there’s this one piece of data is just one part of it and it might lead to new knowledge and other data around it. And then that also becomes significant and it’s all part of the journey. So each and every piece of those data, they all come together in this beautiful sort of puzzle about, yeah, facilitate facilitating the understanding people to understand what Bitcoin is or get excited about it. And yeah,

Stephan Livera:

Let look PlanB himself has said all models are wrong, but some are useful. Right? And he’s even said himself that he thinks, look, the model will break down at some point in like at the best case, it will probably break down in the late 2020s. Right? Even assuming the best possible case. So I think that’s worthwhile talking about it’s a question of when does the model breakdown.

Petek Sketcher:

Yeah. I once you know, corporates and governments really starts something in, then it’s not going to be such a pure reflection of, of you know human human nature or, or the energy of money itself. Right? So I also believe that, that, that chart, well, the, the logarithmic tar of Bitcoin is, is an expression of the, the energy of money in its purest mathematical non-physical form. Right? And, once human control and manipulation and corruption steps in, it’s not going to, it’s going to behave differently. But at least we know right now without all of those things, or with very little of that, at least we know this is actually the purest form of money we’ve managed to express in form of a code that’s Satoshi has freed money from its physicality and given it a code and there’s like maths behind that and, maths is part of nature, you know? So yeah, it’s not always gonna behave like that once it gets too big, but the nature of it is inherently there already and it would always be there. Do you see what I mean?

Stephan Livera:

Right. And I look, I think it’ll even if it does a breakdown at some point, it doesn’t necessarily mean the values of Bitcoin are being compromised. I think it’s just a,

Petek Sketcher:

No,

Stephan Livera:

Just reached a certain level of success or failure potentially, that Bitcoin has reached that a, it has just gotten to that level. So so tell us a little bit about the timeline then for your artwork on this particular stock to flow artwork. What’s the timeframe that you’re looking at in terms of releasing it and so on?

Petek Sketcher:

Yeah. so this one, this one’s taking a long time cause it’s the first one. And it’s very, very layered. So I have to be, I have to be very strategic about when do I paint, what layer? And cause I haven’t done those layers yet. I’m like, sometimes I’m a bit nervous to do the next one. I’m like, Oh shit. Like now the moon rocks going on, you know, I’m like, Oh no, I’m gonna ruin the whole thing. So I wait for that moment where it feels good and where I feel like, okay, I know what I’m going to do next. And then there’s all these videos and I’ll tell you what video editing is, honestly, it’s just a bitch.

Petek Sketcher:

I do. I mean, I’ve had to teach myself and it takes so much time. So all these things are taking, they’re making this particular one very stretched out. Then there was Christmas in between, so, but I think I’m close to finishing it, so I feel like it’s quite close. I’d give it like another two or three weeks. Okay. And then, and then there’s going to be limited edition prints of that one. And I think, well people are very excited about that cause that all have the, print you know, they can, they can have that in their house or wherever.

Stephan Livera:

And they’re paying in Bitcoin as well?

Petek Sketcher:

Some of them are. Oh yeah, which is awesome. You know, that’s on theme, you know, and then the other, so then there’s other commissions. So there’s already a lineup of commissions of original paintings and in different interpretations and variations of the stock to flow chart.

Petek Sketcher:

And I, mean it doesn’t have to be exactly that stock to flow chart could be the very, very first one that he ever did. Cause I love the graphics of that and the simplicity of it. So that’s also the first one he put out was also a piece of financial history. So they were all, he’s developed them over the course of time and he’s refined it. So I’d love to paint that very first one for someone as well. So those will also then have limited edition prints just so that, you know, to share that excitement. And so people, you know, don’t have to commission an original if they want to be inspired by it. Those, the next originals will, I’ll be much faster at painting them just because by then I’ll, I’ll be familiar with the layers and the process and I probably won’t be doing so many videos about it cause yeah.

Petek Sketcher:

That, does take me out of the studio a bit. Yeah. Yeah. But I love the journey, the journey has been, it’s just so exciting. I love it. And all the input from people is, I’m so honestly, I’m so grateful and inspired and it’s just, it’s, yeah, it’s really touching and amazing how people have been reacting and also the synchronicity. Like that’s also really interesting. Like the people I can’t, can’t, now I’m not gonna disclose anything that reveals their identity. But the, the, the amount of coincidences or synchronicities that are sort of falling into place with each person, there’s quite a few. I’m just like, wow, this is incredible. You know, but that’s because we all speak the same language in one way or another. You know, we, the fact that we’re all excited about and get what Bitcoin, what it is, what it means to humanity and you know financial history, the fact that we all get that means we already, I don’t know, like, you know, we talk about it being a community. It’s a community. We all get each other. So we are already on that same wavelength is what I mean.

Stephan Livera:

Great. so look let’s hear a bit about your website and you know, where the listeners can follow you and if they want to find out more, if they would like to order some, where can they find you?

Petek Sketcher:

Okay. I haven’t got a website up yet for the orders. I’m just taking that directly, like in the direct messagings of Twitter. So I’m on Twitter at, it’s Petek. And then the handle is @RadarRayne, so you can find me there and you can watch the videos there. And Oh, where else? There’s a Cape town gallery, which has some of my work art. They’re called access art gallery.co.za. So those are, those are good places. So that’s sort of like good place. Well, Twitter is like, yeah.

Stephan Livera:

The main place to get you. Yeah,

Petek Sketcher:

Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Stephan Livera:

All right, well that’s great. Look, so look, thanks very much for joining me Petek it’s not been my typical episode, but I’ve enjoyed chatting with you.

Petek Sketcher:

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. It’s been really nice talking with you and yeah, you’ve asked some very interesting questions as well, so also, yeah, see where that takes me as well. Thank you.