Bitcoin For Boomers & BitBlockBoom

Hi everyone and welcome to the Stephan Livera podcast, a show about Bitcoin and Austrian economics. Today, episode one hundred and ninety-three, my guest is Gary Leland. We're gonna be talking a bit about Bitcoin for boomers. How do you introduce it to them? How do you teach them about it? What are some of the things that they have to learn from a technical perspective? Is it useful to tell them about digital gold? and Gary is also the creator of BitBlockBoom, so we'll be chatting about that. But firstly, a word for the sponsors of the show. So this show is brought to you by Swan Bitcoin. So those of you in the US, this is the place to get your auto-stacking on with Swan. It's so simple, even a no-coiner could do it. One, you fund the USD from your bank account automatically. Two, you auto-stack the Bitcoin, and three, withdraw it to your cold storage. There's no withdrawal fees. They want you to follow Bitcoin best practices Swan crushes Coinbase's fees and Cash App's fees. Just set and forget, enjoy your life, just Swann and chill. Go to swanbitcoin dot com slash livera and start auto-stacking with Swann today. Be sure to use that link and you'll get ten dollars of Bitcoin dropped into your account when you start stacking with Swann. Next up is Unchained Capital, Bitcoin native financial services. I'm sure many of you know, this is the place to go if you wanna get some multi-signature vault security. You can have two keys and Unchained would hold the third Unchained are also offering vault demonstrations and a concierge service. So if you're unsure about it and you want a hand, you wanna be guided through the process, well, now they've got the vault concierge onboarding package. So you can see on the website, if you go to unchained-capital.com, you can see you can select the package and get some of the devices actually sent out to you and they can help you with getting started with that. Unchained are also offering OTC direct into multi-signature, meaning if you're buying a larger amount and you're in the state It's California, Texas, or Illinois, get in touch, they can help you buy Bitcoin and directly create a multi-signature for you for that. So those are the sponsors for the day, so make sure you go and check them out. And now I'm just gonna bring in my guest, Gary Leland. Gary, welcome to the show. Howdy, howdy, howdy.

Hey, good to be here.

Gary, I'm, I really enjoy how you've been, owning the Bitcoin for Boomers brand. I think you're the, you're, you've really been taking that on, and you've really been talking a little bit about ways to, help, Boomers understand, about Bitcoin. So, look, let's just hear a little bit about you.

me personally? Yeah, sure. I'm, I'm a Boomer for damn sure, born in nineteen fifty-five. I, got into, you know, I just 'Cause they didn't have computers, like, until I got my first computer, like, in 1983. I would've died to have a computer in high school. Oh my gosh, that would've been great. But, I built my first e-commerce site in '96, my first, podcast in 2004, 2006, I was in Time Magazine's 50 Coolest Websites, my podcasting website, 2000 What, fifteen? I think I got inducted into the podcast hall of fame 'cause I started podcasting in two thousand and four. I was one of the first fifty podcasters on the planet. two thousand and seventeen, I think the city of Arlington, Texas named March first Gary Leland Day. And then, I started buying my first Bitcoin in two thousand and seventeen, so I always include that 'cause that's a big day. Very important.

It's, it's an honor to be, hosting a hall of fame podcasters such as yourself. Well, I think it's just 'cause I was so early, not 'cause

I was great.

Yeah. Well, I, I'm curious, in your, in your mind, how has-- how have things changed in the time since we were starting and podcasting today?

Oh, wow, it's changed a lot. It was really hard to podcast back then. Back then! When I first started, I may have been like the fiftieth, I'm not sure, there was no one counting, but I was really in the top hundred, I know. And everybody I knew used the Mac because it came with GarageBand. So the people who were figuring it out had recording software on their computer already. And then you had to host your own files. There weren't places really to host files, and Libsyn came along, they were the first place to host files. But, at first you had to put your own enclosure tags on your, your file. It was but now it's, now it's so simple, there's so many resources, and it's so big now. I remember for, it took years for I found anyone who knew what a podcast was. I wonder if there are

parallels with Bitcoin, you know, in, in the early days. So the people aren't the same. The people are the

same. It's the same kind of people in the early days of podcasting, you know, if you went to, like in two thousand and six, I went to the first podcasting conference in Ontario, California, and it was Select group of people that all felt the same way, and a funny story is we were on a plane going, I was on a plane going from Dallas to California, and I heard in front of me a voice, 'cause that's all you knew these podcasters were by voice, and it was about five rows in front of me, someone ordering a drink, and I said, "Scott, is that you? " And it was a guy named Scott Fletcher, and he goes, "Gary, is that you? " And then some guy like four rows behind us goes, "Hey, this is John. Come back here, guys, 'cause we all knew each other by voice, you know, 'cause we all worked with audio a lot. And, that's the way it was. And now, you know, in, in Bitcoin, you know, it's not that, that voice deal, but, you know, you go to a conference, especially a small conference, and you know a lot of the people there from, from podcasts and different things, videos and stuff, and you have a lot in common, and you get right into a conversation with them and you're friends

I think though, as podcasting-- well, now podcasting is huge. I have a conference, I just sold my podcasting conference two years ago. It was the largest podcasting conference in the world. We had three thousand people last year in Florida, Miami, and we sold it, and it's like, it's a mess now to go. It, it's nothing like it used to be. It's like, yeah, you have all these big commercial companies there, so I, I guess that's what's gonna happen too. I guess it happens to everything after it gets to a certain size

Bitcoin too.

Yeah. So look, let's chat about Bitcoin for boomers. I think, many of us, I guess many of the listeners of my show tend to be more, you know, really into Bitcoin themselves, but we all have relatives or friends who are boomers, and maybe they're not as Bitcoin savvy. I, I wonder in your mind when you, when you're chatting with, people in your generation, what are some of the concerns that they might typically have about Bitcoin?

Well, you have a lot of people that just can't understand the concept of, money that you can't hold, even though they don't hold a lot of their money. So I try to bring it into the rationalization of a credit card, you know, how they, how little bit of money they touch now. But some things, it doesn't matter your age. I had a guy over at the house this week working, in my studio, making a studio at home, and he does networking for a living, and he couldn't understand Bitcoin. And he's a lot more computer You know, like my best friend, he does, he has a computer, and he uses it for sending jokes. That's all he does with his computer, I think. He gets on it, sends people jokes, which I won't open, 'cause there's no telling what is in this that he's sending me. You know, so he's not computer literate at all, but some of the things are still the basic same. But I try to go into the fact that it's like, stocks And money and gold, if you put them all together but you don't touch them. Then they have a, it's-- there's really not a lot of things that are different to explain. And I know that's not what we wanna hear, it's just taking the time to listen to the questions and answer 'em. Most of 'em have the same questions, but they are just a little bit slower 'cause they don't understand tech, you know? But it's the same questions, it's just- N- a non-techny way of asking the questions, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, I see, I see. And I presume as well, it, it might be, they might have different concerns, right? Given the stage of life. Well, obviously everyone's different, but they might be thinking about different things in their life, right? They might be thinking, okay, I might have children, w- can I pass it, pass wealth on or I wanna enjoy, I wanna be on, go on holidays, I wanna enjoy the, the, I guess the, the inheritance considerations, they might be worried that they might lose it if they're not technically competent enough.

Well, there's several things here you just hit on. Number one is they do wanna leave it to their children. I don't know, my wife and I were talking about this the other night. It must be in our DNA as human beings, just like you wanna take care of your kids, must be something in your DNA that you wanna leave 'em a bunch of stuff too, 'cause, m- I know so many people who like are still living like her

They won't spend it, sell any of it, 'cause they wanna leave it to their kids. So there's something in that DNA, so they don't wanna lose their money, 'cause they wanna leave it to their kids. But then again, you know, you've gotta realize these people, a lot of them, at least ways the people I deal with We're boomers, and as an average, the boomers went through and we had the best financial success out of all the generations that probably ever hit. I mean, I'm not saying that about myself personally, I'm just saying boomers as a whole, the amount of money we passed came with us, and that we absorbed out of the economy or however you wanna say it was the most. So these people, most of them have done fine in life, now they've got their money saved, and a lot of 'em have retirements, they have, money savings and 4 They really are. They can sit back, I can sit back now and live the rest of my life and not have to worry. I'm not gonna go, "Oh, if I don't make some money, I'll go be in the poorhouse next month." And that's the way many boomers are. So if you're sitting there in that position, Stefan, and you're comfortable, and you've got money, and you know you're not gonna be next week knowing where your meal's gonna come from, do you really wanna like take this chance on something that you just don't know that much You know, so I think it's really more giving them the tools in the proper order than it is trying to sell them on throwing a bunch of their money that they don't need to throw anywhere 'cause they're comfortable. Like my friend Mark, you know, who sends me pictures, jokes all the time on his computer. He, I finally talked into getting on Swan.

Hiya.

I said, "Mark, I know, listen to me, you need to get some Bitcoin, Mark." You know me, and he's one of the few people who know how much I have 'cause I know how much his house costs. We're really that kind of friends. And he goes, "Okay, okay, I'll do it." And he called me back up and he goes, "I can't..." I gotta like give 'em pictures of my driver's license? Yeah, you do. I gotta give 'em my bank account number? Yeah, you do. But finally he got on Swan and started, so I'm gonna do fifty bucks a week. Now he's up to three hundred bucks a week, I think. You know, so he started doing it and he's seeing it piling up and he's starting to follow it. I think you really have to take it, it's like, it's like to a degree a kid with a bicycle, you start him with training wheels. And then you pull the training wheels off once they get riding. And so I sent him an email the other day for Unchain Capital. I sent him the link to the three, sig page, 'cause that's what Mark needs. He's not technical enough to understand this. He's not gonna be able to set up, he's not even gonna try to set up a wallet. You know, he's gonna be scared without the help of someone helping him. So that's where I'm trying to move him to next. So I think you have to do it in steps. And, and, The ones that you're trying to sell, it's not like they're going, or I'm sorry, maybe I'm being a little close-minded there, 'cause I think of my group of people I hang around, you always think of the people you hang out with, I think, when you think of that. But enough of 'em have money that they can throw in, 'cause certainly when they come home at night, if they've got a retirement fund and 401ks, and they get on their computer at night and they see it dropped one percent, they go, "Oh my God So, you know, getting him to one percent slowly is the deal, not this thing saying, "You need to throw one percent in." Yeah, let's throw a hundred thousand dollars in there today. Ain't gonna happen. Hahaha. That

absolutely.

Yeah, but you could talk him into throwing fifty bucks a weekend and, like, Mark. He'll start doing it, getting comfortable with it, and he'll say, "Well, I need some of this, baby. I can afford it. I'll raise it a little bit." You know? So that's to me is you gotta do it like that kid. It's like that kid, you're giving swimming lessons. I know some people teach their kid to swim by throwing them off a boat and saying, "You better make it back!" And I'm sure they're gonna dive in if the kid goes under. But I'd rather take swimming lessons for my kids. I had 'em take swimming lessons and learn how to float and then swim on their back maybe and then swim around and then join a swim team. It's in steps.

Exactly. And I think one thing in the space that sometimes we are-- there's a lot of purity testing and purity signaling in the space, and sometimes we have to appreciate that a newcomer, a new coiner, is gonna do things in non-optimal ways, right? They're not gonna be fully holding their own keys, they're not gonna be fully running their own node, but as long as they are incrementally learning along the way, I think that's the way we should be thinking. Talking about this, so I guess for any of your friends, I guess are there any wallets in particular or any tools that you try to-- that you typically will teach them how to use?

I've, I've taught-- I used a treasure, I've used a treasure, I've used the ledger, I've used the several wallets. A matter of fact, I'm using a cold card now. I wouldn't teach them how to use a cold card, that's for sure.

But yeah, Bitcoin treasure is pretty easy to figure out. I think it's actually easier than the, a ledger, personally. 'cause I figured that out back in 2017, so I've helped two people. The thing is They all want you to do it for 'em, and I don't wanna be in the loop. And they're like, "Can't you just do this for me? " Or they'll, "Or they'll go, "Gary, can't you just buy some Bitcoin for me and hold it for me? " You know, like I'm a bank or something. They just, they-- Some of 'em will want it, but they don't feel comfortable enough with tech, you know? And see, and that's where young people do have an advantage. They're, they're comfortable with tech

Maybe in twenty years, the boomers that are left will be able to laugh at kids, whatever they're called, 'cause they won't know how to drive a car, you know? And I can't believe a kid can't even drive a car 'cause they're used to self-driving cars. You know, everybody's got their things according to how they grew up, and, and boomers grew up with no tech at all, so a lot of 'em are scared of tech. It's like you ever see someone- Ever, you see this on TV a lot, she goes, "I think I broke the computer 'cause I touched that button," you know, and you laugh, and you laugh, but that's truth to a lot of people. They're scared they're gonna break it.

Exactly. I think I'll tell you what, that's probably a similar experience I have when I'm teaching my mom how to use something as well, right? Like she, she's a bit worried that she might break something, whereas younger people are a bit more comfortable to experiment and just figure out how it works and just play with

Where, where many boomers, the only real, experience they have at computers is they go check their bank account, and maybe they vote, you know, this on a computer. And the grocery store has a touchscreen computer for self-checkout, but most of them don't even want to do self-checkout, 'cause they're used to having someone take their groceries, bag their groceries. I'm used to people carrying it out to my damn car. I mean, you know? So, I mean, you know, that's just kind of funny. I wanna know where that guy is that came Gas station, check my oil and stuff, you know? So things have changed.

So I think the message I, I'm taking from you there is it's, it's, it's really kind of personal service, personalized, you know, the idea of someone there in person to help you. And so an example there might be something like, instead of just giving them a Trezor, you, if you're there with them while they install the Trezor and write down the words, obviously you don't look at the words, but you let them write down there,

twenty-four words, and you

But yeah, they, they, they don't have a problem with doing it, they just need full service, like you used to get at the gas station when you pulled up, the three guys that came out and worked on your car. They'll do it and they got the money, but they need full service and they need the training wheels. So start 'em off slow, give 'em full service, don't just say, "Order a treasure," and it'll come in and you can figure it out. Here's another example. My, my wife's best friend from college decided she needed some cryptos. She started buying some crypto. She has it on an exchange, and when she bought it, I told my wife said she has to buy a wallet. And I had an extra treasure that I don't even know where I got it. Someone sent it to me when I bought something, but I, I, I felt comfortable it was a good treasure. And, I- Sent it to her, sent it to her free, she still has her money on Coinbase, you know, hasn't taken it off the treasure 'cause she can't get that box open 'cause that's too deep a dive. You know, get that box open and figure out something new. But if I came over and we did it together, we could get that off her wallet, you know, off the exchange. So that's the perfect example how you really, you really need to give 'em full service if you want 'em to accomplish it. Small amounts, full service to start with.

Yeah, I think that's exactly the, the way we have to proceed. And I'm also interested to talk a little bit about learning for them in terms of resources, right? Like obviously, one of our favorite books in this space is The Bitcoin Standard. Or, what are some of the resources that you might give if they want to learn a little bit more? Well, I

definitely would give them that book as well, and I also would give them- And I wish, since you asked me, I can't think of it. Who's the guy with Swan? Corey. Jan, Jan Pritsker, inventing Bitcoin. That's the book I would give him first, actually. Then I would move him to the Bitcoin Standard, 'cause, you know, that book is shorter, it's more to the point, it gets into Bitcoin, more into Bitcoin instead of going into money and all this stuff, which is a great book, I think. I think, Bitcoin Standard by Safedines, one of the best books A harder book to start with if you're trying to teach a, boomer. You know, maybe even also start with, the Bitcoin Rabbis book, you know? You know, Bitcoin Money. Yeah, I mean, it's a simplified book, but I, I'm in the process. I just have, I just have too much going on, I can't find time, but I wanna take a book like that, that that simplified, and just make a small book, you know, not a big book with big pictures, but a small book that's that simple Ages and when they get through, they go, "Oh, I understand what Bitcoin is now." You know? And it's not, then move them over the Jons book, and then move them over to the Bitcoin standard. But yeah, I was starting with Jon Pritzker's book. I think that's a great book, and like I said, it gets right to it. I think that's a great resource.

Yeah, yeah. what about, The Little Bitcoin Book? I'd say that, that for me is one of the my favorites in terms of the first

book

Boomers aren't necessarily that worried about, boomers aren't necessarily that worried about individual freedoms as much as younger people are because their whole life They've loved the government for the most part, and the government didn't start screwing everybody till after they were, you know, in high school. So they grew up with their parents loving the government, loving the USA, and they pledged allegiance to the United States every day, you know, in elementary school and high school. So I mean, you know, I don't wanna call it brainwashing, but you be-- you more accept, as my wife told me tonight, she goes, "I don't care what they say," we were watching something on TV, she goes, "The United

And Jimmy's book has more things than, if I remember correctly, about individual freedoms, which I don't, I don't know if that's a big draw to boomers. You know, just in my opinion.

Of course, I totally appreciate that. I think, it's-- you have to select the right tool for the job. Yeah, I think it's a great

book. I'm just saying, you know, some of those chapters I don't think apply to boomers' thought waves. Does that make any sense?

Of course, yeah, yeah. and perhaps the more Be interested in a book like Why Buy Bitcoin by Andy Edstrom, also associated with, also working with Swan Bitcoin. So I'm not sure if you've had a chance to read that one, but that might also be appealing.

I haven't read that one yet. What was the name of that one again?

Why Buy Bitcoin. So that's another one. I mean, there's so many different Bitcoin books out there, so yeah.

Well, I can read them all if they're good ones. Someone recommends one, I get it and read it, just 'cause, you know, It's, it, and it sounds crazy to say, but it is like the proverbial rabbit hole. Once you go down it, you wanna suck as much of it in as you can and drink from that fountain of knowledge and just get it in.

That's right. What about, YouTubes or podcasts or meetups? Are there any other kind of resources or ways that you might recommend? Well,

in, in my area here, there really aren't, aren't any meetups to, to speak of that, and most of them are shitcoin meetups to boot

Tended a friend of mine onto that. And I really haven't tried turning people on to YouTube. I watch a lot, I watch a lot of YouTube. Matter of fact, I hardly ever watch TV anymore. My TV is always just on YouTube. and it's amazing how the algorithm does find things I'm interested in that I, that nothing to even suggest I'd be interested in this thing, you know, which has nothing to do with Bitcoin, 'cause all I ever search is Bitcoin. But something will pop up and go, "Ah, I'm interested in the top ten ways that the but yeah, I, I really don't suggest videos, even though I like, I watch a lot, and, and everybody has something they watch. If they're watching this, they know a lot of videos already, so I'm not gonna teach 'em anything new today, probably.

Of course, of course. a-and probably a little bit more advanced, but, running a node. And I know you run a node as well. I run a custom node

and a HODL, and then I have a new Start 99. that's the name of the company. I, I can't believe Start 9 Labs. I haven't, I, I've heard of

it, but I haven't

looked into it

much yet.

I've got that running. I haven't done much with it yet, except getting running and updating it. But, yeah

But I would never recommend one of those to a boomer, ever. I mean, you know, this would be the last thing. If I started them off of that, they wouldn't even buy a Bitcoin. Oh yeah,

you wouldn't start them with that. I guess it would be kind of part of the journey. I haven't gotten any that

far along yet that I could recommend, that to them. You're like really thinking I'm moving quick with these guys. Of course not, yeah,

yeah.

But I was moving quick. I felt like, 'cause, you know, I

Telling you before the thing, friend of mine rented a movie theater to watch the Super Bowl. And, we were sitting and watching the Super Bowl, and I was just having a good time, this guy came over, I knew who he was, but hardly knew him, he's like, "I hear you're into Bitcoin," and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I am." And the whole Super Bowl, he's asking me about Bitcoin, and I'm like, "I like Bitcoin, but I really was enjoying the..." It's not every day you get to watch the Super Bowl But people were coming up, starting to ask me questions. They were curious about Bitcoin. Then we had the whole Corona deal happen, and it's-- I haven't been. Boomers are like They're huddling, you know, their lives, I guess, basically. They're all scared they're gonna die 'cause they're the ones that are dying at the highest numbers. So you don't-- no friends of mine are having parties. I don't see any friends of mine. I don't see any friends of mine. I see a lot of people, but no one that's a friend of mine, you know, from my age. So that really stopped the, growth of the Bitcoin with the in-person answering of questions.

yeah, yeah. I, I have For me, I've had a little bit more inbound in terms of people asking me questions about Bitcoin, although my friends are a bit younger, obviously, and it's usually online. Yeah, they know how to use, they know how

to use chat and stuff, man.

Might still send me a big email asking me, "Hey, what's a Bitcoin?"

Yeah. And also, I wanna hear a bit about your-- You're doing a series. Tell us about the series. Oh, the Bitcoin for Boomer series.

Yeah, that was, The, Biz TV network, I think it's at biztv dot com, asked me if I would come do-- there's 12 episodes in the first season, "Bitcoin for Boomers," and we're on, maybe episode five, we're filming this week, and, yeah, I just bring on guests and we talk about Bitcoin. I mean, for the most part, it's no different than any other Bitcoin show, show for the most part, but it's me talking about Bitcoin and I try to explain it and I, I think I ask more questions Questions when people say something where a lot of people would let it go by, you know, I've always been kind of like, "Wait a second, what does that mean?" You know, 'cause I don't know. I've learned so much by just saying, "I don't know what that means." One time I asked that question and I made a million dollars in my life, I started asking, "What does that mean?" You know, instead of sounding like a dummy or letting it slide by. So I think that's- kind of like my shtick or what makes, mine work, is I ask questions that are basic, more basic than the average person might ask, you know? And as you get more and more knowledgeable about Bitcoin, it gets harder and harder to ask those questions, 'cause You all of a sudden have the knowledge, and you don't, but, that is with Biz TV, the show we're doing twelve episodes, it's at biztv dot com. the first episode I think came out this Saturday. They're in fifty-one or sixty different markets, but if you've got television but you don't have cable and you watch TV on air, you know, with an antenna This is one of the channels you probably watch, or you know, is Biz T-TV. It's not on cable, it's for the people who've cut the cord, but they still watch TV. 'Cause there are a lot of stations. I've got cable, so I haven't seen the show, but there are a lot of people who don't pay these outrageous cable rates, and they just watch a lot of channels on free TV. And it's one of the ones that, you can watch. If you wanna see this in your area, just go to biztv dot com. They have a page that shows all their channels, and then it shows the times for every show in every city. But yeah, it's kinda fun, it's kinda weird doing a TV show in a studio with a clock and people running the board than doing how we're used to doing it. You know, I got ten minute segments and they're hard times too. You know, I gotta cut it at exact times and, you know, the different time segments. But yeah, Bitcoin for Boomer Show is, It's fun doing it, You know, one thing about Bitcoin, Stefan? Yep. And this, this happened in podcasting too. That's great as you meet so many people by doing media. Like you and I are friends, we met in San Francisco. I know, say, Dean. I mean, it's, it's, I, I couldn't name them all on all my fingers and hands, all the great friends that I've met that I can walk up to or I can contact and, and talk to if I need it or had a question. So, and that's the And with, and that's the way Bitcoin is right now. you can-- there's so many people that you get to know so easily that'll be contacts and friends. I can tell you, 'cause I've done this before, in two thousand and four, when I started, these contacts that we're all making right now will be contacts for life. There will be. This market will get so crowded with people that a lot of em-- you'll meet some, but you just won't possibly be able to meet 'em all. But these contacts we're all making right now We'll be friends for the rest of your lives. You'll have these contacts forever, 'cause you're gonna be in Bitcoin forever. I mean, 'cause this is different than podcasting. This is something that people will be in for forever.

Right. Yeah. I think that's a really interesting point. And, yeah, it's, as, as the space grows, you know, it, it'll just be difficult if you have a, a, if you're a well-known name to be able to answer every DM and every question that comes your way. I mean, you

Hey, even if it was ten years from now, I wouldn't look you up, you know, 'cause I've known you well enough. Or, for instance, I was in Kansas City a year ago, and I looked up a guy who was like my buddy online from the first days of podcasting, and we had a great time, we went out to dinner with his wives, and we were friends just like we were fourteen years ago. So these friendships you're making now, it's not a Bitcoin subject, but these will last a long time, I can tell you from experience.

Oh, look Low time preference way and, I think for the long term, so absolutely. also one point I loved that you were touching on earlier was around the curse of knowledge, right? Like, as you learn more, it becomes harder and harder for you to relate to beginners and new coiners, and sometimes, you know, you forget these little things. And in fairness, if you're regularly teaching new coiners, you hear the common questions that come up, so you can have a sense of that, but oftentimes you lose touch of that. Like, one example is, If you are longer time in bit, a longer time in Bitcoin, you know, you write down the twelve or twenty-four word seed, and that's your backup for all your bitcoins on that wallet. But for a new person, that's not intuitive. They, you know, they might, you know, they might think of it like it's a word file, and you save it, and if you don't, if you don't save it, you know, after you're saving it, you can keep them from

taking a photo of it. But you know, when I first set up my first wallet

And questions and questions, so as we started talking, he goes, "Why don't you come over to my house? My wife'll get some dinner, we can talk some more." So I bought an open dime from him. I went online, I bought some Bitcoin, and I put it in the open dime, and then I took a, I, I took a picture of it. My finger was, "You can't take a picture of that." I was like, "Why not?" You know? So that's why I always use the taking picture. I did it. You know? He's like, "You gotta delete that now."

Of course, yeah. And I mean, there's different apps and tools out there. So I know, for example, Casa Wallet, they've tried to do seedless style, so that you don't have to do-- you don't have to write down the words. Obviously, within the Bitcoin community, there's a bit of debate around some of that stuff around, you know, open source, close source, et cetera. but as a, as a training wheels, as a way of getting people in, I think, it absolutely makes a lot

of sense said how hard it was back then. And I think that when we go ten years into the future from now, people will interview you and you go, "What was it like doing Bitcoin back then?" You go, "It was pretty damn hard, you know? I had to like, go buy my Bitcoin, I had to make this wallet, I had to write down all these words, I had to transfer over a little bit, and I was scared as hell, I lost all my money, and I was waiting and waiting and it went through, then I moved more of it, you know?" And so seems to people who know it, that ten years from now, we'll go, "Man, it was hard as hell back then. No wonder no one was getting into Bitcoin. It was a lot of work." 'Cause that'll happen. That happens with technology. I mean, oh my gosh, if you'da told me-- I mean, when I did podcasts, for instance, I had to use an iPod. To, to download my shows took, that I listened to the next day, took the whole damn day, you know, the whole damn night, I had to plug it in or I had nothing to listen to. Much less picking up my phone and recording a podcast, editing it, and uploading it from my phone. I mean, that And that hasn't been that long, and it went from an iPod to a phone, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That, that's fast. So if we keep it-- And I, I think Bitcoin's moving at a faster curve than podcasting did for damn sure, 'cause no one knew what podcasting was for years,

you know? Yeah, yeah. and also the, that other point you were making about relationships and the people you can meet now that you can't necessarily-- You wouldn't necessarily be able to do in five or ten years' time. I think, conferences Great way for that as well, the chance to meet people in person.

And I'm so pissed about that. I was going, I told my wife at the beginning of the year, I'm going to more trips this year than I've ever gone in my life. I had like seven or eight conferences on plan, I went to one, tones. That was like a week before Corona hit. But we're gonna have another one though at, I'm doing in August here, so,

yeah, so let's

get into what you were going into, so I thought I'd just go ahead Lineup of speakers.

Yeah, it's BitBlockBoom. it's the last weekend in August 28th and 29th, I think. And this will be our third year, and it's a Bitcoin conference, not a crypto conference. You know, my joke is the first time someone reports you for talking about crypto, is I'll come in and ask you to, not do it again. The second time, I'll take you out in the hallway, and the third time, you'll be asked to leave. This is a Bitcoin conference. I wanna make that clear I've turned away because this is a Bitcoin, and I wouldn't let 'em come 'cause they are not Bitcoin companies, they're crypto companies at heart. It's amazing, but this'll be our third year, and, you know, we've had to change a lot of things because of the corona going around. so we weren't gonna have two rooms. Last two years have been one room. It's a huge room, with a-- it's a great room, with a great-- it's really a beautiful room, and we were gonna have a second room, For social distancing, so we're having to do away with that, and just so pe- because if people are wondering, how can you do this during Corona? The room that we're having it in actually holds like a thousand people, and we're only gonna probably have our numbers. Last year we had Last two years we had, we, we sold out at a hundred and twenty-five. This year we were gonna do, we were gonna move it up with the two rooms to three hundred, but now we're backing it down, and it'll probably be about two twenty-five, two fifty. So the rooms made for a thousand, I've had 'em give me drawings of the rooms with the distancing, and it ca-- it can be done. A lot of people who went last year or a year before go, "How can that room hold a thousand people?" But they have to realize this room is in About that, they go, "Oh, you're right, there were two empty tiers that just looked like walkways, but they were empty tiers." So the room we can do, we're bringing in hand sanitizing stations, of course, we're giving everybody BitBlockBoom masks, you know, as to whether they wear 'em or not, that's up to them, and then we're doing things like, in the bathrooms, we're, we're closing half the damn stalls to help with more social distancing. Last year, everybody hung out in the hallway, we're moving that into a tables away and it's not a cramped hallway. So we're trying to do a lot of things to make it as safe as we can. actually, as far as people who've bought tickets being worried about it, I guess it's not a big issue. That's why I went through. Only one person in the United States is canceled who bought a ticket. Everybody else who's canceled has been from out of the country, and they're worried about getting back, like you, you were a speaker, they're worried about getting back. Now I have had a couple of speakers Other speakers who aren't coming, but I've been able to find great speakers to replace them. I had a waiting list of speakers. we just added Isaiah Jackson, from Bitcoin and Black America. we're adding someone else in the next day or two. I'm just waiting for their headshot. I'll wait till I get that headshot, but everybody'll know who that is. So we're having no shortage of people wanting to come. and people, it's-- if everybody was gonna, "Hey, I'm not coming," you know, "I want a Since no one's canceling, I'm like, heck, I probably got more to, to worry about than anyone else who's there, being probably one of the only boomers there, you know? So if, if I'm willing to go for it, I figure, what the hell, you know, let's do it. Of course. Yeah. And look, I got, I'm trying to make it safe as I can.

Yeah. And I think, to be fair, I think, you know, most people are interested to go, and for me, I'm very sad that

Very excited to come along and to hang out with the guys and meet everyone and, you know, just be a part of the conference experience. But unfortunately, Australia, the government here is basically locking things down or basically not letting people travel internationally unless there's certain exceptions, and obviously I wouldn't meet those exceptions, so I literally cannot, fly-- Like, I bought my flight, I even bought the flight already, and it got canceled. so unfortunately, I won't be able to make it, so I'm sorry for the- I have more

people. Usually when I'm at BitBlock Boom, I'm kinda working my ass off, 'cause I'm like really a one man show. I mean, I do most of this by myself, and I work on it all year. But when I was at Tones Conference, had so many people come up to me, and that was an atmosphere when I wasn't working, that had come to BitBlock Boom last year, and they were all like, "Oh my gosh, I couldn't believe it! I was standing there, and I looked over there, and there was Safi it, it's kind of like, because of the size of it and because of the crowd, it's not like the speakers get on stage and talk and then leave. They're there all day, in the crowd, sitting around, coming to dinner and stuff. So it's a really good, I try to make an atmosphere where people are hanging out. I'm not bringing in people to do a talk and leave, I'm bringing people in to speak who wanna come to the conference. And I think that makes a big difference in the conference, is, people coming 'cause they wanna be And they're pitching. You know, there's no pitching from the stage. You can't come up there and talk about, you know, your exchange, for instance, if you, you know, if that was your job, you work in an exchange, but you're talking about Bitcoin. So I, I think it all adds up. Like I said We aren't having any cancellations, everything's going good. I think with the social distancing that we've set up with the hotel, and then, we're still looking for sponsors, if anyone wants to sponsor, we're looking for a hand sanitizing station sponsor right now. I think that's a pretty good sponsor, you have your name over the top of it, I don't know. Looking for a mask sponsor, you know, a mask sponsor, everybody be wearing those masks when they go home, the stores they gotta wear em in, you'd have your, your name all over

And yeah, I mean, you've got a great lineup of speakers, so, definitely encourage listeners to go. I, I, from everything I heard of the conference last year, it was fantastic. So I'm really disappointed I can't, I can't go. I literally, I would come if I could. so- Oh, I know you would. Yeah.

I know you would. Yeah, I know you would. So that's a shame. So we'll have you for next year, though. Hopefully by next August, this damn thing's over, right?

Yeah

I, I guess that's pretty much it, so did you have anything else you wanted to mention for the listeners? And, where can listeners find you and BitBlockBoom online?

Well, just, find me at, on Twitter, Gary Leland, all one word, and then go to bitblockboom dot com if you wanna check that out. all the information's there. And, if anyone is listening, if they can, use the code word, Cousins, C O U S I N S, they'll get thirty percent off '

Off, the price of that. So try to remember that if you're thinking about going. But, you know, my main thing, I just wanna make sure people know is like, don't expect boomers to jump up and down to buy Bitcoin. 'Cause if you go, "God, they can afford it," then that means they don't have a reason to jump up and down, 'cause they've got the money. You just need to walk 'em into it. Take your time, slowly walk 'em into it, work with 'em. They don't mind, like I said, start with, start with Swan. That's where you start. That was so easy for my guy to do. I couldn't believe he was-- I wasn't sure he'd be capable of setting it up. But he did. He had to call me two times, but he did set it up, and he's increased his, spending. You know, on Swan, 'cause he's like, "Oh, that's pretty easy, so that's a great place to start." And don't jump into a wallet with them, let them get a little bit and get comfortable with it, and then bring the wallet subject in. You're throwing too much at 'em, they can't handle that much tech at a time.

I think that's a, that's not just for boomers, I think that's for people in general. Sometimes you just gotta one step at a time.

Yeah, and if they lose three hundred, believe me, most boomers, if they lose three hundred and fifty dollars 'cause someone hacked into the exchange, they aren't gonna die and have a heart attack. They're gonna be kinda pissed, but it's not like it's gonna affect their lifestyle.

Of course. Yeah. Alright, well, look, Gary, thank you very much for joining me. It was, it was great to chat with you.

Hey, it's nice to see you, 'cause I haven't seen you since San Francisco. And, hopefully that'll happen again soon, wherever it's at. Of

course,

I'm really looking forward to that as well.

Yeah, so you had a good rooftop, rooftop meal there. Yeah, that's right. So listeners out, I met Gary, that was the first time I met Gary, it was at the BitFest in San Francisco in June 2019. but, yeah, so hopefully, the conference scene will pick back up, and we can start going to all these, at least internationally, we can start going to these next year. We'll see how it goes with that. but I think that's basically it from us, for this episode. So listeners, you can find me online at step