In this episode Stephan speaks with Matyas Kuchar, co-founder of BTC Prague, about the upcoming Bitcoin conference in Prague. They discuss the conference’s focus on Bitcoin and its intersection with other technologies like AI, the regulatory landscape in Europe, and the community divides within the Bitcoin space.
Matyas shares insights on the importance of self-custody, the challenges posed by CBDCs, and the need for a united front in the Bitcoin community. The discussion also touches on the influence of institutional investments on Bitcoin adoption and the value of self-custody.
Timestamps:
(00:00) – Intro
(01:18) – What to expect from BTC Prague?
(06:10) – The Intersection of AI & Bitcoin
(10:41) – Rise of surveillance state & importance of Bitcoin
(16:07) – CBDCs in Europe and regulatory challenges
(19:30) – Community divides in Bitcoin
(25:59) – The different types of conference attendees at BTC Prague
(29:58) – The value of in-person connections
(34:40) – Strategy’s influence on Bitcoin adoption
(40:20) – Why attend BTC Prague?
Links:
Stephan Livera links:
- Follow me on X: @stephanlivera
- Subscribe to the podcast
- Subscribe to Substack
Transcript:
Stephan Livera (00:00.728)
Hi everyone, welcome back to Stephan Livera podcast. Rejoining me on the show today is my friend, Matyas Kuchar. He is one of the co-founders, one of the lead organizers of BTC Prague.
Conference I’ve been going for the last few years now. I think every year actually what’s the fourth, you know? So it’s yeah, so coming up on the new one coming up in June the dates of that are June 11th to 13th So I wanted to get my tears on to talk a bit about it And of course, you know what he’s seeing in the Czech Bitcoin world and in the European Bitcoin world So welcome back to the show Mattis
Matyas – BTC Prague (00:15.244)
for you.
Matyas – BTC Prague (00:32.695)
Thank you very much Stephan. Nice to be here and hello to all your listeners.
Stephan Livera (00:36.782)
Yeah, so let’s talk a bit about what the focus is for BTC Prague this year. So for listeners who aren’t familiar, I think most listeners know, but this is basically the biggest conference in Europe for Bitcoin and it’s like really more, you know, Bitcoin strong focus. And I believe you got, even on the website here, you’ve got 8,500 people in Prague get it. So these are the kinds of numbers that you’re getting. Talk to us a bit about that.
Matyas – BTC Prague (00:59.49)
Yeah, well, yeah, the numbers are somewhere between seven and half the first six, seven and half the first year up to eight and a half last year. Now with the sentiment who knows how many people will…
come to the next event in June, but we are ready to welcome up to 10,000 people. It’s massive event, 250 speakers. You can see all the big names, Michael Saylor, Jeff Booth, Natalie Brunel for the first time this year. And the list goes on, Jack Mallers. And we have four stages and the topics are pretty much everything from really basics for beginners to…
institutional level, business topics, freedom, technology and also this year it’s very exciting for me to say that we have a new track which is called Bitcoin Living Masterclass and it’s for everything, it’s for Bitcoiners who love to talk about those other things except Bitcoin. So health, AI, Noster, parenting, prepping and citadel building, community building and
be passports. So all these other tools which are important in the time of uncertainty to have in your toolkit.
As a program director, I always talk to every single speaker and I never put the words in their mouth, but I’m trying to encourage them to come up with some action ability. Action is important. Doing by or learning by doing. So it’s not only interesting, but BTC Prague is a place where you can really learn how to be more competitive in the upcoming years because I really believe that we are in…
Matyas – BTC Prague (02:51.05)
in a paradigm shift, the world is changing rapidly and it’s not only because of Bitcoin, but it’s also about those other technologies I mentioned like AI, genomics, robotics. And I would use the analogy of industrial revolution and agriculture revolution before in the 1800s.
where few very important technologies met, merged. It was a telegraph, was a steam engine electrification, was kind of the things that people get more centralized to factories and it changed how the world work and it changed how the society really, how do people live their lives? And I think that we are now in next big leap.
so to say quantum leap into new civilization, into new way how we even think about the world and the space because we have now so many new technological innovations. It’s Bitcoin, it’s AI, it’s Noster, it’s genomics, it’s…
different tactics for longevity, we travel space. It’s crazy what is happening, right? And it’s hard to keep up. But at BTC Prague, we want to give people the chance to recognize what is the trend, where should be the focus, and how to ride the wave.
how to stay afloat, how to not get smashed by this new wave and how to benefit from it. Because every wave has a positive and negative effects. And you can benefit from the positive ones, but you can shield yourself or avoid the negative ones. And I think that’s very important. like the analogy of the technological revolution.
Matyas – BTC Prague (04:55.458)
is great. The history often rhymes and I think that the common denominator if you look at the history and how it’s developing is that it’s speeding up. It’s speeding up and it’s getting more decentralized. So it’s good to be flexible and it’s good to be prepared. Of course like we see so many predictions what
this person is telling that and that person is telling this. So it’s hard to say how the future will look like but it’s good to be flexible and it’s good to have options and be ready and that’s what BTC Prague is about. It’s of course it’s 90 % about Bitcoin but that’s where it starts with good money.
self-custody and then you can discover those other topics which are extremely interesting and important and you meet the people who are leading, who are experts and who can answer the questions and really in just two days you get so many answers and conviction that actually the future is not dark, it’s bright.
Stephan Livera (06:10.008)
So one thing I’ve noticed a little bit is maybe there’s a bit less excitement around just kind of typical Bitcoin self-custody and Bitcoin development.
Nowadays a little and the reason I’m saying this is I saw even the recent bit devs Austin like Ben Ben the Carmen and Buck pearly mentioned that that bit devs meet up in Austin is going on hiatus because a lot of the people Are actually getting interested in AI right? And I’m sure you’re kind of maybe you’re seeing a parallel with this in in Europe and in the Czech world that maybe You know people feel like maybe Bitcoin is quote-unquote boring or now to be fair I think it’s because we’re in a bear market also, but
Matyas – BTC Prague (06:51.202)
Mm-hmm.
Stephan Livera (06:53.252)
AI certainly has sucked up a lot of the attention and the energy in the recent year or two, right? And so what are you seeing on the European side and in the Czech Bitcoin world? Is AI taking up a lot of the excitement and that’s attracting the developers and the attention and the money?
Matyas – BTC Prague (07:11.81)
Yeah, well, great observation. think it’s also true in trigger public that AI is getting a lot of excitement and it’s normal. And I mean, for people who want to stay competitive, it’s absolutely necessary to catch the train. So being focused on AI at this moment is necessity. Like now.
Stephan Livera (07:36.876)
Yeah, it’s non-negotiable. Everyone has to use it to even stay competitive.
Matyas – BTC Prague (07:40.756)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I recently had even nightmares that I’m not using AI enough, you know? And it pushed me to next level and I’m trying to use AI in a sovereign manner.
Stephan Livera (07:47.64)
Ha
Matyas – BTC Prague (07:57.438)
extra mile with being having a security and not trying to host everything myself because I don’t trust the third parties. So those are very important points and not everyone is considering them. So I see a lot of hype around AI like CEOs and board members of big check companies are talking about how they use AI.
but they never mention any drawdowns. They don’t mention the risk which is coming with it. So I think there needs to be a learning process still. We are very, very early in the development and in Czech, the scene is quite big. We have small and big conferences about AI.
Matyas – BTC Prague (08:48.674)
universities in Prague are very much pro-AI and the development, the science is happening there behind their walls. So I think there is a fertile soil and who knows where it will get us. But regarding BTC Prague, I think we want to focus on AI and how it intersects with Bitcoin. Because we can see that, for example, Pablo Fernandez and
famous Noster developer he’s using AI with Bitcoin and the stories what he’s been saying like giving his AI agent a few dollars worth of Bitcoin and the agent suddenly disappeared and host himself in a sovereign way is showing us that money digital money with no board
are very important so I mean it’s exciting time I don’t even know where to start it’s it’s great
Stephan Livera (09:50.179)
Yeah, so you’re getting into the like a.
like agentic payments, right? And there’s a bit of a battle on that because right now it seems like stable coins are basically gonna win that. And in the Bitcoin world, there’s maybe some competitive pressure there of like, what can be done to use Bitcoin for agentic payments? And I know even the BPI guys did some, put out some research showing that AI, some of them were choosing Bitcoin over like fiat payments. Obviously we would like that, we all like that, but there’s still a battle on and
Matyas – BTC Prague (10:16.908)
Yes.
Stephan Livera (10:24.208)
at the same time, mean to the broader point, like many of us come from a libertarian or some kind of similar mindset to that and we see…
what’s happening with nation states around the world where the trend is kind of the bad way, right? Like it’s chat control, like in the EU, it’s things like, you know, new forms of regulation, new forms of digital ID or CBDC. And it seems like that’s the pathway that we are.
Matyas – BTC Prague (10:54.508)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (10:54.798)
humanity we’re being corralled into that pathway and then on the other hand you have let’s say the more freedom aligned technologies things like Bitcoin and others so where do you see all that shaking out?
Matyas – BTC Prague (11:06.08)
You know, I grew up in a family which part of the family was from, so my grandfather, he was a dissident. I come from Czech Republic. We had a very difficult time. My parents, they’d been born into communism and…
So I’ve been taught to build parallel systems and not trust authorities. That’s how majority of my generation was raised. And that’s why we really tend to love Bitcoin and Freedom Tech. So for me, obviously, I don’t like the surveillance state. I don’t like to be na-need. I don’t need control. I think that I’m a sovereign individual.
And when I see the over-regulation and the bureaucracy, what is the Union coming in and trying to push on us, I feel this is very bad. Europe is broken because of that, because it just makes everything more difficult. The people who are entrepreneurial, innovative, are the ones who are driving the civilization.
I feel that European Union is choking this particular group of people. But I also see some hope and light of the end of the tunnel, and especially in Czech Republic, because last year in May, we just passed this law of no capital gains taxes after holding Bitcoin for three years, and another few very important…
development happened in Czech Republic and from hostile territory four years ago now I see that we absolutely turned upside down and it’s very friendly legislation which is actually attracting the talent from all around the Europe. We have most MECA requests in Czech Republic from all Europe considering that we are a small country and we have like
Matyas – BTC Prague (13:14.266)
maybe five times more requests than Germany and then like our neighbors this is a great signal and I think that it’s it’s ridiculous that some countries are trying to oppose like big taxes and and welfare taxes because the rich people just will leave they will they will seek better conditions you know and you you you said it like most of us are libertarians we don’t want our
We like fair word. And I feel like Czech Republic is a nice example for a change. What can happen even inside European Union? And I hope that we can act like a blueprint and other countries will follow. I personally am all for building power structures, what if, but there is a huge movement of advocates and people who like to
who like to try to change the current system and I think it’s possible and maybe it’s not about changing but tweaking and making sure that the future is not that dark. There needs to be a fight on the front of CBDCs and chat controls and this kind of things which are horrible or valiant and…
I’m trying to help as much as I can because this is not the way I feel very passionate about because I’m not an expert. I don’t like to read those long reports. But in Prague there is an initiative and people meet there and I like to say that Prague is a headquarters for resistance. And it doesn’t matter if you are a freedom fighter or hard currency maximalist or a local community builder.
you can find the people who are similar to you and together you can synchronize on the plan how to make the future. know, many people dream about the future but we can actually create the future.
Matyas – BTC Prague (15:26.562)
and it’s just about realizing that it is possible and feel powerful because I think that we are the generation who can make the change. I’m really, you know, I don’t want to sound like Jesus here but I think that the time is now and we need to act because the window of opportunity is maybe not open for so long.
Stephan Livera (15:34.349)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (15:53.591)
My-
sense of this is that the world is obviously digitizing everything’s going on the internet, everything’s being computerized, whereas historically we had things in paper format and that is what’s driving some of this tension. And then of course there are other things happening at the same time, Like the advent, as a quick example, the advent of cheap international airfares, right? Like that was not a thing 50 years ago, 100 years ago, it just wasn’t a thing at all. And so now nation states are trying to find ways to deal with that and
then there’s that tension of yes, they can just kind of go the quote unquote smart city or smart approach. And then there’s gonna be this tension of how do you make something that is respecting people’s privacy or sovereignty to the extent that’s possible, at least. And maybe that’s gonna be something like a DID or a Nostra and this kind of thing.
Matyas – BTC Prague (16:42.7)
Mm-hmm.
Stephan Livera (16:51.006)
And I guess what we’re talking about is those people who believe in that idea pushing that form of it before the CBDC form of it comes in. And I think maybe that’s a bit of the tension that’s on now in the next sort of five to 10 years.
Matyas – BTC Prague (17:05.89)
Well, you know, it’s surprising me that the CBDCs are really here. Like I’m hearing about it for so many years and the… all my idea about that was that it’s only in China, it will never come into Europe.
It’s slowly, quietly got in. I mean, we are reporting on CBDCs every year since the beginning, since 2023. And it seems like the fight is really here. It’s been confirmed that CBDCs will be active in some way in September this year. So that’s scary. Yeah. We need to deal with it now.
Stephan Livera (17:48.013)
Yeah. And then the challenge is that because things like this war on cash and so everyone gets pushed into that system and sometimes it’s a carrot, sometimes it’s a stick. I think that seems like the way things are going and so that’s gonna be a bit of a challenge for everyone to…
sort of grapple with that trade off of how much can you use Bitcoin inside of the system and how much can you not. Right now, yes, at the same time Bitcoin is being integrated in certain ways, like certain banks are having it where you can borrow against your Bitcoin and this kind of thing. So I guess that’s at least, that’s where things are for now, isn’t it?
Matyas – BTC Prague (18:21.932)
Mm-hmm.
Matyas – BTC Prague (18:30.176)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I’m a self custody or collaborative custody maximalist. think that holding your keys the only way how to move forward in a safe way. And I see the future where Bitcoin is being kind of captured by institutions, but not in a in a scary way, but we will see some paper Bitcoin.
think that this is a learning experience. As everything in life, know, CBDCs and I’m still very, very hopeful for the resistance, for the new movement which is happening. And I think that…
those things we are just talking about now, those scary things like surveillance and CBDCs are the last try of the old establishment to kind of fight back. But the pendulum of decentralization is swinging and it can’t be stopped. The pendulum always swing.
from one side to another and as far as it was on the left, as far it will be on the right. So yeah, that’s just an abstract way to express that, yeah, that I think that the future is bright. It’s just about like that the paradigm is shifting towards individualism.
Stephan Livera (19:53.292)
Right, that’s how y’all seeing it, yeah.
Matyas – BTC Prague (20:07.094)
because if we have hard money there will be no helicopter money from the state or there will be helicopter money but the inflation will be so high that it will quickly debase the currency and it just means that people need to start being more responsible for their own life and I think that’s a good way it will move us as a civilization to places where
where we can rely on some certain things and not thinking about fiat as the way to save our ass when the shit hits the fan. Sorry for swearing.
Stephan Livera (20:50.347)
Yeah, yeah, that’s fine. And then I guess on community divides, I think that’s another interesting one, a topic to get into. So give us your take on this. Like, are you seeing community divides in Bitcoin nowadays?
Matyas – BTC Prague (20:56.578)
Mm-hmm.
Matyas – BTC Prague (21:05.249)
Good question. think… Yes, I see the community being divided in two camps mostly. And it’s been a topic for me personally because as a program director I’m trying to stay on the top of things and trying to understand what is the topic, where is the through, how to navigate.
myself first and then the others and I was not that, how to put it, like I understand both of those camps. I understand the ideology behind the NOTS or BIP 110 camp. I understand that because I personally don’t like NFTs and like that data.
than money on Bitcoin blockchain. I think Bitcoin is the best money and that’s it and I don’t like the spam and I also understand the second part, the second camp which is more technologically right that it’s very difficult to fight with the spam.
Perhaps I find myself somewhere in the middle that I can understand both camps and from my position as a conference organizer, I think that I would like to act as a glue and remind people and Bitcoin community who is the enemy in the first place, why we started this fight, what we are creating, what the future looks like. If we really…
kind of step a little bit away and look from a distance. I think from a distance it seems like a little bit of a childish play and I personally know people from both sides. I know Mekanik, know Luke, Giacomo, Hodlunaut, I know…
Matyas – BTC Prague (23:18.782)
so many people from both camps on the whole spectrum and I really believe that everyone is a good actor. There is no tinfoil hat thing happening.
It’s just that everyone has a different priorities, ethics, technological savanness, and everyone is looking from a different lens. But it doesn’t mean we don’t agree on eight points from ten. Of course, there are really bad actors, okay? Don’t get me wrong, there are bad actors in Bitcoin ecosystem, scammers, people who are trying to push some malicious things on the blockchain, trying to sell them.
to talk about them and I’m not inviting them to BTCPROC. And you know, so with this being said, like I’m trying to create a diplomatic soil at BTCPROC. I think it’s great to meet in a person and discuss that publicly and find some solution or just agree that we don’t agree. That’s also fine.
When we announced few speakers at BTC Prague, I’ve got so many emails. Some of them were really, really bad, really angry.
Matyas – BTC Prague (24:40.878)
recognized that those people they were like shitting on some speakers but they didn’t appreciate the other speakers so I will maybe just like say that I’m always reading all the DMs I always reply all emails so if you have something to say please do but at least at least choose the language respectively
Stephan Livera (25:06.637)
Yeah, and I’m sure as a conference organizer, you deal with that a lot because you will, you you’re trying to invite a range of views, right? And the full spectrum and there’ll be people somewhere in the middle, there’ll be people way out on one side, people way out on the other. And then, you know, if you invite somebody who’s known as very pro pro one idea, the anti people will kind of really get on your ass about that and be like, Hey, why are you inviting them? You shouldn’t be giving them stage time. I presume that’s the kind of thing you’re hearing.
Matyas – BTC Prague (25:32.674)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (25:34.391)
Do you hear the same thing even if it’s for a debate?
Matyas – BTC Prague (25:38.236)
yes, well…
Yes, I do hear the same thing and the devil is always in the detail so it’s hard to argue about the detail and kind of explain because it takes 10 times more energy to explain and 10 times more time than just hit the nail.
I’m trying to stay out of it and that’s probably my message, like really, like calm down guys, like… Because it’s not… From my point of view, I understand why some people are so emotional about this, because I also hate spam, but perhaps it’s time to calm down a little bit, because it can backfire and it can cause more harm than good.
Like imagine you are a newbie, you are coming to Bitcoin for the first time, like now we are in a bear market, so there are not so many newbies. But imagine you are a newbie, are coming to Bitcoin Twitter and you see this kind of thing. How you can wrap your head around that? You know, it’s very difficult and it was for me like this when the block size wars were happening. I was very fresh, very fresh newbie and
Stephan Livera (26:32.813)
Yeah.
Matyas – BTC Prague (27:00.32)
I couldn’t understand most of it. It caused that I was actually looking for better Bitcoin at the time. And that’s why I fall into shitcoin space. So, I mean, yeah, it’s a learning experience, but we are really not doing a big favor to Bitcoin by infighting.
I’m happy that there are some good discussions being held, like always you find a Jewels, but I think the common line should be that we don’t get that much emotional about stuff.
Stephan Livera (27:42.233)
So on the topic of new people, I think…
Maybe what we’ve seen in recent years with some of the new people coming in, we’re coming in through vectors that we weren’t necessarily anticipating, right? Like obvious example, ETFs and treasury companies, right? And that’s maybe been another source of argument also, right? Like not just the of the nots and 110 people against the non-nots people, but also like people are, if they’re in favor of treasury companies or not, or do they see it as like a, sorry, so I guess my,
question to you is also where are you seeing the new people coming in like in terms of the conference also like would you say the conference attendees are mostly the same over the years or is there a little bit of a churn factor that you know some people you know maybe they’ve been once or twice and they’re a bit over it but then you get someone new the next year like what are you seeing there?
Matyas – BTC Prague (28:36.704)
Yeah, well, we see that we have some kind of numbers because we don’t track personal, we never ask for name and any information other than email. That’s the only what you need when you buying our tickets. You can pay with Bitcoin, which is quite private. So we don’t know much about our attendees, but we know that like 30 % of the emails are new.
And that kind of tells us that 30 % of people are new every year. And of course we have hardcore members who were there for, who will be there for four time. And thank you very much for all these supporters. I’m pretty sure that you are somewhere else now than you were four years ago. But to answer your questions, I think that sentiment is very bad now.
Stephan Livera (29:07.223)
Interesting.
Matyas – BTC Prague (29:35.328)
very bearish. There is a lot of fear, uncertainty. The geopolitical situation is not helping. The fad around Bitcoin is not helping. The quantum is not helping. And this of course means that only the hardcore Bitcoiners are staying
Stephan Livera (29:58.412)
engaged in this,
Matyas – BTC Prague (29:59.112)
engaged yeah and it’s hard to attract attract newbies and we see that the the google trends are really at the all-time long
Yeah, it’s weird, you know, it’s mind boggling.
this, why is that? Yeah, but it’s true. People are coming to Bitcoin when it’s all-time high. And we are just 70,000 now. So it’s a tricky thing for us Bitcoin conference organizers, but we’ve dealt with it before. And the bear market conferences are the best because you meet the hardcore Bitcoiners, you meet the people who really are into it. And…
and can level up with all of them. Shake a hand.
Stephan Livera (30:47.234)
Yeah, yeah, and there’s pros and cons to that too, I would say, because even when you do have a beer market conference.
the people who come, they tend to be, it’s easier to sort of meet interesting people because like in those bull market conferences when it’s just like chock-a-block and it’s full, you often don’t get the time to actually catch up with people. Whereas in like kind of those bare ones, it’s a little bit small, like the vibe is a little bit, you know, it’s a little bit smaller in terms of numbers. So that’s an aspect of it. But yeah, as you know, and I have very consistently said, I’m a big fan of all kinds of Bitcoin meetups. So there’s your local meetup or it’s a conference.
Matyas – BTC Prague (31:16.61)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (31:24.728)
I think these things all help. I know there’s been a lot of criticism from sometimes from people who say, why would you go to the conference? You can just like see the talks online for free or they’re just saying the same stuff you heard on the podcast. It’s like, no guys, you’re just not getting it. know, like you’re really not getting it right. Like, because it’s that in-person connection. It’s things like, you know, people are looking for jobs or people are looking for employees. It’s people are looking to meet other friends. They maybe they’ve only learned a little bit about Bitcoin and they don’t know enough yet to go and listen to all the podcasts and what like it.
Matyas – BTC Prague (31:34.944)
No, that’s not true. No. Yeah.
Stephan Livera (31:54.621)
really does make a difference and that’s why for years and years I’ve been you know I’ve been trying to help out a lot of conferences I’ve been trying to go and just help them you know do you with talks or helping out with moderation or whatever just something to get to help grow the community because like ultimately there’s there is a grassroots community for Bitcoin or communities let’s say all around the world and I think it’s it’s foolish to not try to grow that if you’re trying to grow the movement you’re trying to grow Bitcoin so at least that’s
Matyas – BTC Prague (31:59.031)
Mm-hmm.
Matyas – BTC Prague (32:12.62)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Matyas – BTC Prague (32:20.928)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Stephan Livera (32:24.534)
I’m seeing it. What would you say to the conference haters?
Matyas – BTC Prague (32:29.556)
Well, I think they’re missing so many points and I got there. It’s fair to say that you can watch the talks online. It’s fair to say that you are saving money with traveling and for the tickets. But on the other hand, it’s an investment and it’s very good investment because there is this saying like you need 10,000 hours to master everything. You know that, right?
You need to play the guitar to actually learn it. You need to speak the language you learn it. If you pay for a guitar teacher, you learn faster. If you pay for an English teacher, you learn faster. If you pay for a conference, you learn faster. And not only you learn, you make the connections. You never imagine how…
easy is to get in touch with someone at the Bitcoin conference. You get like dozens of contacts in your phone and you can use them in different ways. It’s helping in upcoming days and I just pick one very interesting example.
So in the time of AI and deepfakes, you never know what is true. Maybe now you can still recognize, but in a few years you won’t be able to recognize what is true and what is not. But if you know me, and if you see a fire on the TV that Prague is under the fire, you don’t need to trust and you just…
Pick a phone and call me and ask, Matias, hey, I was Prague, I see it’s disaster. And I’ll just tell you, hey, come on, it’s a deep fake, don’t worry, chill out. And I think that in the upcoming years, we will need a real connection. The Dunbar number is a real thing. You need people who you can trust. You need a strong back around yourself of like-minded individuals who will help you to thrive.
Matyas – BTC Prague (34:38.786)
and who
Matyas – BTC Prague (34:42.537)
the barriers between the world and the reality. And you meet the people at the conferences, not only in Prague. You meet them at meetups, in conferences where you shake hands, look into their eyes, and you know that you like this person. There is a chemistry and you can learn from each other and help each other. Because everyone is a little bit different and
The things like for me, I’m not a very technical person, but I’m learning ton from other Bitcoiners. They helped me to set up node. They helped me with CoinJoyce. They helped me with AI, with Noster. I wouldn’t be able to do it by myself, really. Like I would be able, but it would take me 10 times more, 10 times more time. And that’s what I mean by 10,000 hours.
because you can spend 10,000 hours behind your screen or you can go to conference and every hour you spend there means 10 hours behind your screen and even more because behind your screen you don’t meet
Jack Mallers or your favorite speaker in the conference and shake his hand and being able to ask the question and get the answer right away. yeah, I mean, if someone is saying that you will get the same amount of value.
behind the screen. It’s not true. I’ve personally traveled, I travel to conferences every year, not only Bitcoin conferences because I know that it is valuable, it is an investment and even though I’m outside of my family, I’m away from my family, it’s worth and it’s always payback.
Stephan Livera (36:39.223)
You know, also in the age of AI videos, deepfakes, et cetera, it might be that people who have built up some trust or people who you’ve met in person, that…
allows you to not get tricked about things that are happening in the world, Like as an example, even like with all this Middle East stuff, there was a ton of like deep fakes or old videos and things like that. And if you talk to someone who’s actually in that city, they can give you a real perspective. Or if you know them and then you see them sharing something online, you’re kind like, well, hey, I know this guy, I’ve met him before. He’s a real person. He’s not just like some, you know, AI influencer, AI bot, whatever. So that’s kind of…
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:02.337)
Okay.
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:06.764)
Yes.
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:15.297)
Mm-hmm.
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:19.415)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (37:21.379)
That factor might get more important in the next few years because people are gonna start following AI influences. Literally, this is not a real person. This is just a bot or a faceless account, this kind of thing, or made a generated face or whatever.
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:26.102)
Definitely.
Matyas – BTC Prague (37:33.73)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. you know, you started with the question, would I, like this treasury companies and the institutional world, how that plays into the whole adoption. And so if I can, I’ll just give you my two sides about that. Because from…
Stephan Livera (37:55.161)
Sure.
Matyas – BTC Prague (38:02.7)
friends I’ve already so already two of my friends from my home city they they approached me after they bought micro strategy they they were they were no bitcoin no well now they are into bitcoin but the entry entry drug yeah yeah
Stephan Livera (38:16.033)
Right. And not Bitcoin.
Stephan Livera (38:24.995)
So MSTR was literally the entry point for them. Tell us a bit about this story, because I think that would be interesting for people.
Matyas – BTC Prague (38:31.382)
Well, they know me from high school, some of them even longer, so we are meeting, you know, every now and then, talking. So they always knew I’m into Bitcoin, and I offer them like…
I taught them about this because I’m excited so I cannot be quiet about Bitcoin. But they never got it, you know? And they kind of thought this normal thing like it’s a bubble and it’s money for debt and it’s boiling oceans, all of these classic stories. And I wasn’t able to convince them. So I gave up.
And then because they both, were trading some stocks, so they were buying kind of a regular basket of stocks like Tesla, Google, Microsoft, because they know about inflation. They understand that the money is being devalued and slowly taken out from their pocket. So they understand the problem.
Stephan Livera (39:32.887)
is being devalued over time, et cetera, yeah.
Matyas – BTC Prague (39:40.611)
and their solution was investing in stocks. And then they saw the micro strategy and they start researching it and they saw it’s kind of a Bitcoin stock. And that was the time when first one person and the second one was a little bit later, they came to me and they apologize and they start to be curious about Bitcoin itself. And they start buying the stocks but they also have a hardware
they own self-custed Bitcoin.
Stephan Livera (40:14.393)
Gotcha. you were able to kind of get them down the rabbit hole once like once they hit that entry point of buying MSTR then you were able to sort of pull them down the rabbit hole a bit further and actually get some self custody. So that’s actually a good that’s actually a success story because the counter argument you might hear from some people or not the counter argument but just a common story is people say hey there are people just buying the ETFs and they’re just buying the treasury companies and they don’t even buy the bit self custody Bitcoin whatsoever. Whereas what you’re saying is this is an example where they started with MSTR and they actually did go on to
Matyas – BTC Prague (40:17.579)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (40:44.437)
self-custody Bitcoin. that’s really good. I think the other really powerful narrative that you know probably every Bitcoiner, every like if you’re committed and you’re trying to grow the Bitcoin economy and community, DCA and withdrawal. You just need to push this DCA and withdrawal especially in the bear market. It is so important because if you get people DCA and withdrawing in the bear market in a few years time,
Matyas – BTC Prague (40:46.295)
Yep.
Stephan Livera (41:11.533)
you know, that is the most important time to have your DCA on. But paradoxically, you know, maybe it’s fitting, that the time that it’s easiest or it feels nicest to do the DCA is during the bull cycle. But the best time to actually do it is during the bear cycle.
Matyas – BTC Prague (41:14.69)
Mm-hmm.
Matyas – BTC Prague (41:23.052)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. No, no, no, you said it right. mean, Bitcoin is a great tool and you can use it different many ways. And also the Bitcoin is a spectrum. You can have like a kind of a paper Bitcoin call to call it paper Bitcoin and you can have like a self-custody Bitcoin somewhere in between is Bitcoin on exchange.
And then self-custody is also kind of evolving into like non-KYC, Bitcoin, multi-party. So there is a big spectrum and I think that once you step in, then it’s about researching what is the right solution for you. If you’re an institution, perhaps you need to buy ATF. But if you’re individual, I still think that the best and the only solution should be
to have a self-custodial Bitcoin on your own keys, but maybe you don’t arrive there.
some time to try first and and hold it on exchange. Some people need to have the learning experience to lose it. It happened to me. I’ve lost something going on exchange and it was a hard lesson. I’m happy for that. At this moment yeah yeah it’s hard but it taught me very important lesson I will never forget.
Stephan Livera (42:31.118)
Yeah.
Stephan Livera (42:56.025)
Yeah, and even there, there are…
other nuances to it also. So for example, people in the UK, British people, have this SIP account thing where some of them were buying MSTR inside of that. And they might have some self custody Bitcoin outside of that. But that was a story. I know nowadays SmarterWebCo and basically, there are different stories where it will make sense for some of your stack or some of your investment to go that way with some of the, with obviously the other part of it being in self custody.
So those are interesting. guess people have to understand the different situation, right? It’s pick the right tool for the job. Of course, now, some people could say no, but you could just buy the ETF in that thing as well. So it just depends on the situation, of course. Different countries, different regulations, and so on. But anyway, let’s finish up. Tell people what can they expect? What’s the main takeaway that people should think of when they think of BTC Prague? And when is it coming up?
Matyas – BTC Prague (43:59.268)
You know, many people dream about the future. I really think that Bitcoiners and pretty much entrepreneurial people should focus on creating the future and you can create it with right tools. You can learn about all these tools at BTC Prague, mostly Bitcoin, but these others as well. And you can also meet the right people who will help you on the way.
So I would like to invite everyone to BTC Prague. It’s June 11-13. It’s a summertime. The weather is nice. The beer is cold. The people are beautiful and friendly. The lineup is great. There is an expo with almost 100 Bitcoin-only companies with booths so you can meet the companies there. Go for a three-day ticket so you can get the maximum of this event. You can be part of the
outside stage where is a Bitcoin living master class which is about all these other topics Bitcoin will love to talk about and inside it’s about business and education, freedom, technology and of course like meeting the whole community and all the speakers. So I’m absolutely sure that you will get a ton of value if you’re coming to Prague and
happy to just to just stop for a moment shake a hand and hear and hear your story.
Stephan Livera (45:30.689)
Excellent. Well, yeah, listeners, make sure you share this out there with people. Go to btcprag.com. As I’ve said, I’ve been there every single year. I think it’s a great conference. It’s a great event. You really meet interesting people. And so yeah, go to btcprag.com. and don’t forget CodeLivera. People get a discount for that. So don’t forget that. And that’s it for us. Thank you, Matyas, for joining me.
Matyas – BTC Prague (45:50.99)
Thank you very much Stephan.